Kieron Gillen's workblog

 
             

   
 
 

5/13/2005

 
Alisdair posted some interesting things about Post-punk, which set me thinking, related to what a few other people wrote. And then Joshua Ellis set me off, thinking about what it means when I listen to the period described in Simon Reynold's (brilliant) RIP IT UP. And... well, here's the ramble:

I was born in 1975. I was listening to my parent's Motown rather than post-punk in 1980, so it's not really a question of nostalgia, but of *history*.

Except, to steal Blur's phrase from when they were vaguely relevant circa Modern Life Is Rubbish, legislated nostalgia - Having nostalgia for something you've never experienced. One of my takes on Britpop (at least its start) was less ancestor worship, rather an artistic Oedipal thing. I want to fuck what Daddy did, and have the wife, the house, the swimming pool, the reputation.

History is a different thing. I remember when I started seriously thinking about music that I was aware there was SO MUCH MUSIC that I knew absolutely nothing about. Or rather, I knew about, but hadn't had a chance to listen to. If you take 1990 or so as my year zero, that's 15 years since punk and thirty since the start of the modern age of pop. That's a lot of records to listen to before you can talk credibly about the whole flow of things, in terms of real understanding as opposed to a sampledelic dillentante thing.

I don't think the generation after me even think of things in those terms. It's post-pop-history now. While 15 years post-punk was vaguely dealable with, 30 years post-punk is an obscene figure. It's that sensation I get when I walk into a decent library and realise I'm never going to know even a fraction of it. So you just take what you can, and live with it.

So, People may know that there was once a Band called the Gang of Four who The Futureheads rip-off, but don't care at all. While someone like Elastica reappropriated early-Wire, it was reappropriated *for their own purposes* (which I always read as a indie-fication of sampling culture in a guitar-set up, a paradoxical mix of absolute respect (Ace! We'll use it) and disrespect (Why shouldn't we use it if we like it?)), most modern hair-cut Indie doesn't even *care* about history enough to attempt to remix it. To the Futureheads, the Gand of Four are just some angular guitars. Nothing else matters.

And, by their succcess, The Gang of Four are just reduced to some guitar sounds. A Futureheads fan's responses to the noise are conditioned to see them in the context of the Futureheads, and since they're just a four-square band, that's what the Gang of Four are. The Rapture's (brilliant, annoyingly) House of Jealous Lovers reduces the Pop Group's We Are All Prostitutes, and so on.

This leads me to thinking that there's always been different sorts of revival culture. Two-Tone could be read as a sixties-Ska revival, but actually was infused with the post-punk scene and used for a specific, urgent purpose. Britpop was nothing but a revival movement, but was actually talking about specific, current state of mind in the Mid-nineties (and was mostly shit, but isn't really the point). Conversely, the Mod revival of the early eighties (and the mini-one in the UK of the mid-nineties), is nothing but coping the stances of the earlier period, and in doing so, missing the point entirely. Modern Mod takes are quintissentially English, taking it as a traditionalist conservative thing. Actual Mod was virulently ANTI English, based around black American music, italian suits, etc. It's an obvious point, but real mods today would be listening to hyper-tech R&B or similar, not Paul Weller. And the array of eighties/post-punk indie at the moment are nothing but pure formalists.

It was mainly music about ideas. Why, if you're in a synth-edged band like the Bravery or whatever, should you dress in clothes similar or inspired by the period? They haven't even engaged their brains (or even REALISED they should be engaging their brains enough) to move past that state.

I only got around to reading the Julian Cope autobiographies recently, but one thing that struck me was how absolutely literate everyone in the scene was. People read the reviews, and tried to apply the belief structures of the journalists (which were processed from other sources) to the making of music. It's notable that the absolute intellectual emptiness of the mainstream music press (Which has expanded from just the inkies to coverage in "real" papers) just begats more intellectually empty bands. If it's music about ideas, and they're not digesting any, they're not going to create anything which has them.

As a corroloary, these sorts of leap of creative faith I'm describing require exactly that: faith. Belief. That's one thing everyone is deeply short of in the music scene, and the population at general. Believing in something is deeply unfashionable. Being Reasonable is the watchwords, and all that begats is reasonable, small things. Great pop is always based on grand, stupid designs. And this is why kids today (from the same social niche as the people who were primary forces in Post-Punk), despite having better tech and access resources than the period described by RIP IT UP, aren't doing as interesting stuff. They don't have the ideas, they don't have the grandeur, they don't have the absolute stupidity. Which is stupid.

My other thought about RIP IT UP that, despite the general disdain for what Pete Wiley coined Rockism, and eventual embrace of Morley's Popism, that's a very different thing from what people today mean by Popism. What's interesting about that cusp-of-the-eighties was that it was people from a Rockist culture (and totally infected by it), trying to deliberately take a Popist stance. It was a volunary thing, rather than them coming from a culture where that's actually the dominant belief structure. Religious converts have, on average, more faith than those who are born into it. In the same way, people in my generation - where Rockism has always been dumb and evil - are popist by default. We don't really BELIEVE in it. It's just what we're supposed to think. So the popist escapades are a simultaneous smaller, lesser thing.

Which leads me to start thinking about a possible useful synthesis position, but that's a different rant.



539 Comments:

Yes. Interesting. I've been doing a bit more thinking about the place of popism as well. More when I've got a chance - today's looking a bit hellish, so writing thousands of words is going to have to wait until later, when I'm drunk.

By Anonymous Alasdair, at 10:53 AM  

Well, that was long.

Jamie

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:55 AM  

"so writing thousands of words is going to have to wait until later, when I'm drunk."

This is the best way. Also: While waiting for someone to deliver seven boxes of Commercial Suicide and being late.

KG

By Blogger Kieron, at 11:04 AM  

By the way, if you need help carrying boxes and all that tonight, let me know.

By Blogger Jamie McKelvie, at 11:12 AM  

It'll all be done by the time you get here. Assuming that they arrive.

//drums fingers.

KG

By Blogger Kieron, at 11:29 AM  

And not to completely ignore the post above (I've replied in Al's original post and pretty much agree with all you've written here), but anything else we need to bring bar sleeping stuff?

By Blogger Jamie McKelvie, at 11:32 AM  

No, basically. Should be fine, I think.

KG

By Blogger Kieron, at 11:33 AM  

Okay, so I really need to order this book…

…but I'm reading Revolution In The Head at the moment, and I wonder whether we're just seeing the same cycle repeated; Morley, Penman and Reynolds reaching the same point that Ian McDonald did when the 1960s ended - that the best of times were over, and Pop could never recapture that former glory.

I think that both Rockism and Popism have something important in common: they are both failures. There's a small core of people who still believe that music should be 'real', and that anybody who doesn't write their own music is Not To Be Trusted, but the cricket bats of Pop smashed most of their members up years ago, leaving a few Stereophonics fans still swooning over "Mr. Writer". The Morley/Penmen New Pop axis didn't survive 1983, and has faded completely into the background as Consumerism triumphed over all. Take Annie and M.I.A. for example - easy examples of the type of music that the 1980s NME would have championed years ago - where are they? Barely even grazing the charts. ZTT was a glorious failure, Factory dissolved in guns, ecstasy and the Happy Monday's rider. The NME/MM quickly purged themselves of the dense criticism, preferring instead the Collins/Maconie era, which then gave way to the Era of The Beast (or Steve Sutherland *puttup*)

I don't know what I'm trying to say, really. I recently thought that the two sides probably had more in common than it originally seems, like, say, the Outer Church and the Invisibles. Simon Reynolds as Quimper. We're all the same, but wouldn't you prefer to be King Mob than Sir Miles?

(Also, both modes tend to overlook hip-hop, which completely dominates Pop. The great American revenge. We took their music, sold it back to them and lauded over them. They took one look at Kraftwerk, saw the potential, and made the dancefloors heave. We couldn't resist. And why would we? *bing-bong-bing-bong*)

Currently playing: Saint Etienne — Side Streets — I wonder, really, in the end, are SE New Pop? They have the sophistication, the pop aesthetic, the dreaming of a London that doesn't actually exist, the power of Situationism, the cheek to record a duet with David Essex (who I'm currently investigating through the internet, and sadly discovering that music history is FUCKING FRACTAL - I'm never going to get to the end, and when I can even see merit in David sodding Essex, where can I go? (Incidentally - "Stardust" - awesome pop music film which comes on ITV at the dead of night every few years)). But then Bob Stanley is k-rockist, (you do have to wonder why he even wanted Kenickie on EMIDisc, really), so perhaps it's an affected stance, and what SE are is a Rockist filter of Pop, borrowing from obscure 1960 British girl-groups.

Ten years ago, my favourite band was Oasis. Today, it's New Order, Dexy's, Kenickie, and Sleater-Kinney. The right boxes for a converted indie-kid to tick, I feel. Perhaps there should be a Born Again Popist sect ("Repent for the sins of your Bluetones records and praise the Holy Trinity of Richard X, Xenomania, and Girls Aloud!").

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:14 PM  

And of course that's Ian MacDonald...oops.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:22 PM  

Please never attempt a career in music journalism. You are so horribly self-congratulatory, long winded and tedious when writing about music, and you tend not to say anything of any interest.

Sorry. I like you better writing on games.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:37 PM  

General request: If you've actually got something to say, could you sign your name at the bottom of your posts? Whether you're engaging in debate or prickling, I'd like to know who's saying it.

Anonymous 1: "Morley, Penman and Reynolds reaching the same point that Ian McDonald did when the 1960s ended - that the best of times were over, and Pop could never recapture that former glory."

You're a It's unfair to Reynolds a little, who's at least self-aware enough to realise what he's doing here. He admits as much in the intro he's positing his youth against that Holy Sixties thing, and why not? It's exactly what the previous generation did.

Otherwise, lots of good stuff, and nothing particularly I'd argue against. Though I'd add that EVERY movement in pop is about failure. It's always an arc, one way or another. I'd also disagree that both MM and the NME purged the dense criticism. By the early ninties, there was still a lot of fun ideas in the Maker especially. And when you reference the Invisibles... yes, that's exactly it. I think there's a useful synthesis. Both stances miss so much.

And I want to listen to Saint Etienne now, you bastards.

Anonymous 2: I'm glad you like the games writing. You can't like everything anyone does. You'd probably hate my cooking too.

KG

By Blogger Kieron, at 12:57 PM  

I dunno, your toast is pretty good.

By Blogger Jamie McKelvie, at 2:25 PM  

I dunno. I find it a little Self-satisfied, myself.

KG

By Blogger Kieron, at 3:05 PM  

There was a tinge of smugness to the cheese.

By Blogger Jamie McKelvie, at 3:25 PM  

Oops. Couldn't be arsed to sign up for a Blogger account, and forgot to put my name in (Anon 1).

As I mentioned, I haven't got the book yet, but glad to hear that Reynolds acknowledges the point.

I didn't start buying NME until 1996, not a well-respected era by any means (although I have a soft spot for Swells, as I can still remember his "The Hot Rock" review which made me trawl through Manchester rain to grab a copy), so sadly going on second-hand experience there (always a bad thing to do when listening to people talking about music papers/magazines).

I like the idea of Pop being the spectacle of Failure repeated over and over. Although it's better when the failure is interesting…

Saint Etienne - muahahahaha

(Paul Morley would have to be KM - you can just see him wearing the suit in Invisbles Vol. 3 #1)

Ian Pointer

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